What is it like to switch from Backroads Trip Leader to Backroads guest? Thanks to the trip credit available to Backroads employees—an initiative to make sure everyone in our office understands the magic of what we do—many Backroads Trip Leaders have had the opportunity to experience our trips from both sides.
We never get tired of talking about our trips. And there are endless angles from which to explore them. But this is without a doubt one of the most surreal.
We had a conversation with three office-employees-slash-occasional-Trip Leaders: Joey Coe, Marketing Content Specialist and Trip Expert of our Kentucky Biking Trip; Field Manager of Asia Shauna Pugliese; and Marketing Writer Ben Lilly, about what it’s like to experience a Backroads trip from the guest perspective.
Longtime friends Shauna and Joey recently returned from our Bordeaux & Dordogne Bike Tour, the latest of several buddy trips they’ve taken together on Backroads departures. Ben was able to bring his husband on our Bryce & Zion Multi-Adventure Tour as one leg of a three-week road-trip honeymoon.
The three sat down together to reflect, discuss and laugh their way through a handful of questions. The following is a transcript of that conversation, redacted for clarity and length. Ever wondered what Backroads leaders are really saying about our trips? Read on to find out!
Let’s start out simple: what is it like to be on trip as a guest when you’re already a leader?
SHAUNA: Incredibly fun. Incredibly playful, very carefree.
JOEY: I imagine a leader makes for both a very easy and somewhat complicated guest. I’ve been known to create my own custom itineraries during the day. And because we can basically support ourselves out there, Shauna and I have left an hour before the group on a couple of days and up to four hours after the group on others.
SHAUNA: I think part of why it’s so fun is because we get to play this middle ground of being very close with the leaders, understanding what their days look like and hanging out with them over the parking lot cooler for way too long… but then also having time to get know the other guests and savor every bite of our Michelin-starred meals.
BEN: I like how you said middle ground. You know, as leaders, we tend to like being the center of attention. And it’s fun because you get to be a guest, but your fellow guests also are like, “oh my God, you’re a Backroads leader!” So you kind of get that spotlight without putting in the work.
I’m sure people have different ways of addressing that—either saying on Day 1 “I also work for Backroads,” versus not saying it at all because they don’t want people to be asking them questions about the company or about work. How do you guys deal with it?
SHAUNA: I think we go more of the loud and proud direction. I don’t feel any need to not open that door. If people have questions, we have the gift of gab and we love it.
JOEY: I mean, it’s pretty easy to guess who we are, so we’re not trying to hide it.
BEN: When I was a guest, I found it was hard to turn my leader brain off… and I didn’t really want to. Like, it’s fun to just flop around, but what should I do all day? Part of me wants to have a mission and be running around on side quests.
SHAUNA: Yeah, we love a side quest. On our recent trip we thought we were going to read a lot of books. We sure didn’t do that, but we sure did have a lot of side quests. Sorry Joe.
BEN: This probably says something deeply toxic about me as a person that I should address in therapy, but I love being as busy as we are when we’re leading a trip, you know?
JOEY: I imagine it’s kind of like how a chef feels when they go out to eat, or how a musician feels when they go see a show. There’s a deeper level of understanding about what it takes to pull this off.
BEN: Right. As a musician, you don’t not consume music. You do it more.
JOEY: Yeah, you appreciate it more. You appreciate what it takes, and all the practice and all the work and preparation. And you get to watch somebody else’s style, because there’s so many different ways to be a Trip Leader. You can be more thoughtful and reserved and academic, and people love coming to you because you feel calming. Or you can be this incredible stand-up comedian-type performance artist that’s just a ball of energy. And they all work. It’s cool to pick up different things from different people.
What’s something you were totally surprised by on trip, against all odds?
JOEY: For me, it was going to dinner and having everyone ask you about what’s happening the next day!
SHAUNA: Yes, Joey was called a leader until Day 6. Somebody came up to him at the end and said, “Thanks for a great trip, Joey!”
BEN: Joey, you’re just exuding leader gravitas. What can you do?
JOEY: It did happen. But it’s also like… I did know what was happening the next day. Like, I’m probably the best qualified person at the table to answer this question. So it was a funny dynamic. Suddenly you’re on the inside of the conversations that guests are having, instead of trying to anticipate the conversation that they’re going to have.
BEN: Okay, I have one. I can’t believe that my leaders got away with surprising me with this, because it was my honeymoon, so in hindsight this is such an obvious play. But on my trip I happened to know too much about the different trip hotels. I was like, “I notice we’re not staying inside the national park”—Bryce Canyon, which is a Dark Sky Park, and my husband Alejandro is obsessed with seeing the Milky Way—“is there any way we can pop in there and see the stars at some point on the trip?” The leaders were super calm, like, “sure, maybe we can do that.”
Little did I know that they had planned a whole nighttime surprise picnic for us on the rim of the canyon, with champagne and balloons and everything. All the other guests were in on it. They had bought gag gifts from all the different national parks we’d visited, and they were waiting there to surprise us. We hung out on the picnic blanket, and jammed on the ukulele, and it was a total trip highlight. And I thought… This is so Backroads. Obviously if it’s your honeymoon, they’re going to do something like this. And yet I didn’t see it coming!
SHAUNA: That’s an amazing story. I mean, also—we can get into this forever, but I feel like I’m always surprised by the magic of an in-route support stop. Even just a simple coffee stop, where you’re sitting there like, “How did this town just show up along my ride, and how do the leaders know everyone who lives here?” Or when you’re at the peak of a mountain and there’s watermelon. The power of that little moment where you think, “Someone is caring for me and wants to make my day.”
BEN: Yeah, totally. At the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter if it’s a surprise—number one, because it’s what you exactly needed at that moment. Like the cold watermelon. And number two, because even though you’re aware of the fact that these things are coming, you’re so present in the moment that you don’t actually see them coming.
What have you taken from the experience of being a guest and used it to change or inform your work as a leader?
JOEY: It definitely makes you appreciate what we do as a company. Since we work in marketing, Ben, you know that we talk all the time about what Backroads can do for people. It’s so helpful to get to do it as a guest. I sift through guest quotes at my desk every day and think, “I felt that same way.”
SHAUNA: For me in Trip Development, it’s important to have fresh eyes. Normally I’m so entrenched in the details, but when I’m a guest there’s more ability to soak in what just feels good. What lights people up? What sticks with you? Like on our Basque Country trip, I remember tapas night, wandering to different tiny local spots in town, was so fun. So we brought something similar to a Hanoi trip, because I felt it was really going to land for people. To just sit on those low plastic barstools on the sidewalk and feel like they’re having this moment they would never have otherwise.
BEN: After going on a trip, I’ve definitely pushed two things more mindfully with my guests. One is shifting gears and resting, because I totally underestimated how exhausting it is to be a guest! Those are early mornings. When you have no rest day where you’re driving the support van, those miles add up. So I’ve started really nudging people to pace themselves and relax. To tell them, “Hey, the short option is amazing as well.” “The next hotel has a great spa; you don’t want to miss it.” Otherwise it can be such a blitz.
The other thing it taught me is: Don’t be afraid to mother-hen it up with the support. I was totally that guest who pridefully insists, “It’s fine. I can hike the back pocket option by myself. Don’t come along just for me; I don’t want to impose.” And then when my leader appeared out of nowhere with water, I was like, “Incidentally, yes I am out, and yes I would love some.” The instinct to not want to impose is just so powerful. Before being a guest I worried about being too pushy, but now I’m not afraid to take “I don’t need anything” with a grain of salt.
How do you choose the trip(s) you’ve gone on as a guest?
JOEY: Shauna bullied me into it.
SHAUNA: True. And he liked it. But other than that, this most recent one came down to availability. How does it fit into the schedule of Joey and me? Because it’s really fun to share the experience. And we love to bike.
JOEY: Yeah, it definitely starts with “who am I going with?” And then we go from there.
SHAUNA: It also helps if it’s a fun place to start and finish. For this one, you know, starting and ending in Paris was amazing. On the Danube trip, starting in Prague and ending in Budapest... Basque Country in Biarritz and Bilbao? Hit the Guggenheim as a bonus!?
BEN: For mine, it was definitely convenience. I went on a trip that I have led, which of course made me wonder, “Is this a waste?” But I also knew that all of those national parks are so hard to figure out by yourself. I wanted to show them to my husband Alejandro, who had just moved to the States, and I was like, “I cannot be bothered to find a campsite in Zion. That sounds like an absolute nightmare.”
So it’s funny—as a leader, I always thought if I were a guest I would go to Botswana or Bhutan. But when I had the chance, I realized, actually, logistics is king. And having the convenience of Backroads in this place that I already knew sounded so amazing.
SHAUNA: 100%. It hadn’t been a bucket list item to go to Bordeaux for either of us. I didn’t know anything about it, but our best friend was leading so that was a bonus also. But these trips are so dang fun, I realize that I could literally be anywhere. And plus, when we were deciding on Bordeaux we thought, “When are you ever going to get to experience the French countryside like this? You’re not just going to drive through these places. You’re not just going to show up in Bordeaux and hit back-to-back-to-back world-class wine tastings and meals, followed by a World Cup game in the town square.”
JOEY: Besides, you’d be surprised how hard it is for two longtime Backroads people to find a place neither have been!
After being a Backroads guest, what do you think makes our trips most magical?
JOEY: The leaders, obviously. We’re magical unicorns. Kidding! Well. Sort of. It’s the combo of autonomy, smooth logistics, and yes, the Trip Leaders lift the vibe.
SHAUNA: It really is amazing to experience the leaders in action. To have a front-row seat and be a recipient of what every guest feels. All while I’m on my third bag of peanut M&Ms, because I had to swear off them as a leader, but as a guest it’s game on.
Also—maybe more so recently, because of my current job in Trip Development—the relationships with the hotels have felt more noticeable and impactful to me. Man, when you walk into a restaurant and you watch the leader start chatting it up with the waiter or waitress... or you go into a hotel and the people are just so pumped to see you. You’re already at a Relais & Châteaux property, and then these people go, “Oh, you’re a Backroads guest!” with such genuine joy—it feels so good. You’re in such good hands constantly. And you can feel that there have been so many good people, investing so much good energy, up until that moment to develop that relationship.
BEN: I love that. Okay, I have two answers. I think it’s remarkable how when you’re leading or designing a trip, our itineraries are planned so tightly—but then when you’re on it there’s so much ease. It really is like, “Oh, we just finished hiking. Wouldn’t we like a sandwich? Let’s get a sandwich at this deli that happens to be at the trailhead, it looks so cute and that sounds perfect right now.” Or where naturally you would think, “Let’s get on our bikes from here. Isn’t it downhill? Why not?” Except that the logic of that spontaneous choice has been foreseen. It’s incredible how that breeziness is designed in; how that’s the result of everything behind the curtain actually being like a tightly wound clock.
SHAUNA: I was thinking about this when we were talking about the question of what we’ve learned as leaders. I think a big one is keeping things on time, but not making it known that you’re keeping things on time. It’s so valuable at the end of the day when you’re the guest that has three hours between the end of the ride and dinner, and you’re so pumped about it. And the guest has no idea that the leader did specific things all day to make sure that that was possible.
BEN: Yeah, that’s true. I mean, everyone already gets that we manage travel logistics so guests don’t have to. But to manage time so someone else doesn’t have to, is a really specific gift.
SHAUNA: I really resonate with that ease, too. Just being like, wow, I am hungry and now there’s a sandwich in my hand.
BEN: The other thing was, I think it’s pretty special to travel in our groups, you know? There’s this concept out there that it might be a detriment to travel with randos. But I think having a crew is just such an ideal way to travel in most cases. If I had gone on this trip with only my husband, yeah, it would have been more intimate. But we also might not have been as social with each other nonstop. We wouldn’t have had these outside energies helping create memories for us.
SHAUNA: Totally. I second that so much. I think it’s so inviting to create relationships based on nothing other than shared experiences. And I think because there is nothing else to worry about the entire time, your openness to making friendships and connections is so much more than it is in your normal daily life.
BEN: Yeah, that’s one reason why those situations that I think people worry about—where maybe you don’t like the other guests—are so rare, because people really are able to be at their best on these trips. I would stress, to those who read this, how seldom that happens, that there’s any drama or bad chemistry. In a way, the other guests are randomly selected, but in a way they’re not. You all want to do the same kind of travel. And that is already a great reason to be enjoying this together.
SHAUNA: Yeah. I mean, at every farewell reception I’ve been like, “oh my God, I’m gonna miss this quirky bunch!” And maybe these people were totally out of your normal circle, but that’s what makes it so cool. And you just say to each other, “We’ll always have Bordeaux.”
BEN (a la Casablanca): “We’ll always have Paris!” We’ll always have… excellent bookend cities Prague and Budapest.
In one line, what advice would you give to guests to enjoy their trip to the fullest?
SHAUNA: If your hotel room has a bathrobe... Always. Wear. The. Robe.
BEN: Pace yourself with the M&Ms, so that when the best food you’ve ever tasted randomly appears, you can stuff your face.
JOEY: Give yourself time for reflection. If you’re a journaling person, journal. If not, just take a moment to notice a sunrise, a river or the stars.
Ben Lilly entered Backroads as a Camp Chef before becoming a Trip Leader and eventually a staff writer. Despite having studied in Switzerland, acted in Mexico and volunteered in the Amazon, he’s never found a place that beats his homeland of Northern California. But the search continues—as does the search for the perfect taco. (The best one so far is at El Güero on José Moran Street in Mexico City, in case you were wondering.)
Joey Coe was born and raised in Louisville, Kentucky. Prior to joining Backroads, Joey worked for the world-navigating, ship-based study abroad program, Semester at Sea. Since joining Backroads in 2012, he’s led over 15 different trip itineraries in places such as Alaska, Argentina, Yosemite and Panama.
Shauna Pugliese loves playing sports with balls and attempting pool stunts such as throwing people in the air. While working at an experiential sports marketing agency, she joined Backroads for what she thought would be “just one summer.” After eight years in the field in Mallorca, Oregon, Vietnam and Cuba, she only just recently returned to collect all the belongings she left in a storage unit in 2018.
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